Klamath Basin Adjudication Klamath Falls Oregon Basin Water Adjudication
Klamath Basin Adjudication Klamath Falls Oregon Basin Water Adjudication

Klamath Basin Adjudication Klamath Falls Oregon:

Klamath Basin Water Rights Adjudication;    John Locke 222:   The reason why men enter into society is the preservation of their "property"; and the end while they choose and authorize a legislative is that there may be laws made, and rules set, as "guards" and "fences" to the properties of all the society, to limit the "power" and moderate the "dominion" of everypart and member of the society. For since it can >>>"never" be supposed   to be the will of the society thatthe legislative should have a power to destroy that which everyone >>>designs to secure   by entering into society, and for which the people submitted themselves tolegislators of their own making:

"whenever" the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the "property" of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a "state of war with the people", who are thereupon absolved from "any farther obedience", and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence. Whensoever, therefore, the legislative shall "transgress" this fundamental rule of society,"


Klamath Adjudication


Foul Proceedings


The Klamath Falls Basin Adjudication process in Klamath Falls Oregon has been bringing out water thieves of every kind, the state having let attorneys into the mix which simply twist water laws without respect for Justice or regarding the Historical use within the Klamath River Basin. Sadly, it is turning the Klamath Basin Adjudication process into a sick joke placing Interpreted Law above written Law and Justice, and Court Procedure above Fact.

To assist Klamath Falls water users and help those within the KlamathRiver Basin that are having to fight against attorneys on their own, thissite is presented to inform and educate on how to locate land and recordsto establish your water rights claim:
  


>>> Click Here for Help on Searching Land Patents and Land Entry Files for Establishing Your Klamath Falls Adjudication Water Rights

See also quick questions and answers in center column>>>
.

Center column shows the state's attempts to assume undelegated powersover Vested Water Rights.










 

 Attack on Klamath BasinWater Rights
 

The federal government, state government, local water boards, crooked corporations and socialist environmental groups are taking methodical steps to take and take control of your ranch water.

In an unprecedented violation against ranchers, farmers and property owners, these groups have financed a wave of attorneys to use procedure to take away your land value, water rights and indeed your land.


John Locke:         


Samuel Adams - Rights of the Colonists





Corruption

The Electric Corporations are laying down false claims;

This on water historically shown they have not used by USGS water gages; Simply to take water away from rightful users to increase the water through their own turbines;


State Corruption of OregonWater Laws

See 2nd and third column at right:

State attempts to take water rights through the Klamath Adjudication process.



Theft

The irrigation districts are attempting to create a situation of skimming rights off of each irrigator using thewords "fair use", to get more water to sell to others at a higher rate orto sell out to the government or to corporations.

Proving they are as much a crook as the others.

They as the others have contested others rights not knowing anything about many of the people or rights they contested, nor had any interest or use of the water they contested; simply to make people prove their rights.


Manipulation

The Klamath Indian Tribes are doing the same for a quick resale of the water to corporations, government and irrigation districts in the future and as a future trading pawn.


Coercion

Environmentalists are attempting to get the government "classify" "good" farm land possessing valuable vested water rights as "marginal" farm land, so toget the people to sell their land and water rights at cut rate as willingsellers to the federal government so to get control of the landand water and keep it out of the hands of the citizens.

Using Taxpayer money though "right offs" and Tax exemption status being paid by the farmers and ranchers, against the ranchers.



A Better Way

***
   A better way would be instead to simplyremove zoning restrictions that have been keeping the farmer fromselling his land at market determined parcel sizes so thatthe farmer can benefit from his land and water rights; and in turn morepeople can acquire and benefit from the land and water rights.

Something that the County should do.

-------------------


Ever wonder who will benefit most by having more water stay in the Klamath River?

The Electric Companies by far; Environmental special interests organizations a close second profiting by the turmoil.

Who else is financing all these attorneys and pushing the contestments?

Where else is the money to pay these high profile attorneys coming from?

A Stacked Deck

-------------------

By forcing you, an irrigator, farmer and rancher into:

1.) fighting through procedures and attorney and legal terminology you have very little knowledge about and where interpretation of the law has been corrupted to be greater than the original intent, you will either have to take your chances fighting through the stacked deck or

2.) hire an attorney for 350.oo +  an hour.


Planned Outcome


The two outcomes for Farmers and Ranchers in the Klamath Basin water struggle are obvious:

1.) The first choice, you stand to loose a good portion of the water you now use.

2.) The second choice you may keep some of your water, but may, in time, loose your ranch or farm trying to pay the attorney bills.



Farmers, Attorneys, Judges and State Administration
 

The idea that this legal procedure is friendly to those who are not attorneys is a farce. If you do not know procedure, the attorneys will railroad you with their tactics and the judge will not assist you unless you ask, and at that, only if you ask or know what or how to ask, and then the help is bare minimum, allowing important areas to slip by during the hearing and thus allowing the attorneys to conceal information that will make your case.

The conditions are such to set thestage for a water war buffered only by a State Water Resources Department that can only see numbers, and have not even researched their own archives to bring out records of the past, relying on your own ability to do research over a one hundred year period of time.

The judges, though required to know water law, have no understanding of vested rights that are under common law and will remain so after the adjudication.

An adjudication that must respect and protect vested water rights andonly determine beneficial use.

The Water Resources Department has not been given the power to redefine the vested right, only to determine use.


Attempt of the State to Assume Undelegated Powers

But the State of Oregon Water Resources Department is now part of the problem:

And if you made a mistake 12 years ago not knowing the weight of your words at that time, every word you did not understand, record or map you did not really look over in context with the past, these will be used against you.

Not only by the contestants, but by the State Attorneys.

Did not know you actually had riparian rights?

Sorry!

If you did not claim them, the state will attempt to say that you lost them, even if you have been using the water for riparian uses since before 1909 and need them to water your cattle along the banks of your stream.

This is NOT How the original Law was written,

BUT the state is using the "FEE" loophole to TWISTthe meaning and take away your water rights that you actually have.

The Original Oregon Law states clearly that if the water has been used, your right
will not be voided or set aside!

The State "Interprets" the law incorrectly; and indeed that is how they present their ability to subvert the plain language of the law.

They say that the fees they have asked are "not unconstitutional";

But the fees or time for which to pay them do not precede the "purpose" for the Adjudication;

And that purpose is clearly written in Oregon Law: The Purpose of the Adjudication is to "Protect ValidVested Water Rights".






Who Will Profit

So who will profit?

Pacific Power and Light (now Scottish Power), irrigation districts and their bureaucracies, so they can lay more claim on your water, so they can further develop and make money on water that was meant to continue development of your farm and ranch;

As I continue this site, having been through the procedure of contesting and now being contested by people who simply wish to take that which they do not own nor in the past used, I will present actual case files that will show how these government attorneys, corporate attorneys manipulate the courts steal water, how courts stack the deck and state attorney turn a deaf ear.

Many of these files can be Reviewed online at
http://www.ferc.gov, Klamath Project case Docket # 2082 on Fall Creek Power House Claims, Fall Creek a tributary to the Klamath River, on the Oregon California boarder, regarding Spring Creek water and USGS gage reports.



Find Your Water Right Records

Some Helpful Notes:

Look for patents in your County Records by searching back to the original owner - BUT DO NOT STOP THERE ! 

Also Look for the patents online on the Bureauof Land Management (BLM) web site GLO Records at: http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/PatentSearch/Default.asp? or (http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/) by entering Section, Township and Range of your properties legal description and or name ifyou have it of the patentee under their search.

Write down the numbers given there to help the Archives find your Land Entry Files for that patent ....... 

THEN: Call  202-501-5395  for operator or Mary Francis ext. 327 or write The Washington DC Archives:

OLD MILITARY AND CIVIL RECORDS (NWCTB-LAND),
TEXTUAL ARCHIVES SERVICES DIVISION,
NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION,
700 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE NW,
WASHINGTON, DC 20408-0001 

and have them send you the forms for getting copies of the "LAND ENTRY FILES" for those patents, you will need one form for each patent you want the files to.
 

*** NOTE!!!!!! >>>> If will need the records CERTIFIED as a "True and Correct Copy" : Make sure to tell them! -As this is a different form and they will not change the request over the phone. If you send in the wrong form and then request for the information to be certified, they will destroy the old form with your credit card information - without telling you - and send you the new form; and the process will start all over again loosing much time!!!

SAVE the Reference Number in the top left hand corner of the form - you will need this number to trace each of your requests from the archives.


You will then have to mail the white portion of the form with requestto pay for the search by credit card or by billing you to:

TEXTUAL ARCHIVES SERVICES DIVISION,
NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION,
700 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE NW,
WASHINGTON, DC 20408-0001

A Postcard will be sent to you witha MASTERNUMBER theywill use to keep tract of the progress of your order -NOTE: this number will differ fromthe number in the upper hand side of your form.

For Inquires on your requested forms after they have been sent CALL: 301-837-2000

This will arrive at the TRUST FUND section of the archives that will process the order and send the request back to the Archives research section who will do the search. Trust Fund Phone is 202-501-5170.

The Archives Search will bedone by the office of George Shanner (sp) 202-501-5385  Ext. 260

 

Allow 60 - 90 days, so start early; If your case is already underway ask for an extension in time to receive these records or if the time for records is past; the hearing inSalem has already taken place; or the case has been sent to the Water RightsAdjudicator: Still Send them asking for the Adjudicator or hearingpanel or both to "ask that the record be reopened" to accept these records and to take "Judicial Notice" of these records.

These files will tell the improvements done by the patentees to receive the patent, do not be discouraged if a ditch is not mentioned - if there are crops or clover and other that required irrigation to grow - This means they were irrigating and all that wasneeded to deliver the water  was present.

 Stay tuned 1/1/2004. RT

The Klamath Basin Adjudication, Klamath Falls Water Rights Adjudication and Federal Energy Commission Re Licensing report.

The time has come to reduce the Federal Government and its burden on this free country,
find out how.

----------------



Counter by Rapid Axcess
Counter by Rapid Axcess
 

 




STATE OF OREGON

ATTEMPTS TO TAKE WATER

USING THE ADJUDICATION AS THE MEANS







 

 

 

To understand HOW, the state plans to do this, here is some history and Law that you may not know of; that is valid today  and pertinent to all VESTED WATER RIGHTS.

Vested rights,  remain under the LAWS, and possess the POWERSof their WATER RIGHT at the date the right was FIRST APPROPRIATED.

Oregon Supreme Court Ruling:

" Reports of Cases, Volume Decided in the Supreme Court of the State of Oregon", Volume 114, March 24,1925 to June 1925, Page #116:

"....Water and Water Courses - Title to Land Obtained "SUBJECT" to "LAWS PREVAILING".

(#26): "Those obtaining title to land take "SAME" subject to "LAWS THEN PREVAILING" "RELATING TO THE APPROPRIATION" OF "WATER" "

So the statement that the state owns all the water in Oregon, is not quite correct; Unless you wish to accept "Ex Post Defacto" laws in either civil or criminal cases;


Black and Pomeroy Treatiseon the Law of Water Rights 1893
offers relevant and VALID Common Law that spans a large amount of historywhich includes references to Oregon cases as well;

Black and Pomeroy Treatise on the Law of  Water Rights 1893 establishes clearly that a Vestedwater right after it has been beneficially used can be used for ANY TYPEOF USE:

SEE PAGES 116 to 119:  

§68 Appropriator may change place or manner of use.

Actual Excerpts:

"RIGHT to Exclusive Use of Water" " ..... The general doctrine is SETTLED, by the unanimous consent of the authorities, that the prior appropriator is entitled to the exclusive use of the water, up to the amount embraced in his appropriation, either for the original purpose or for ANY OTHER PURPOSE or DIFFERENT PURPOSE, provided the amount is not increased, without diminution or material altercation in quantity or quality; and his use will, to that extent and for such purposes, be protected against all subsequent appropriators, both above and below on the same stream; and to this end he may obtain all proper remedies, legal and equitable. 1"

Cases Sited: 1 " Himes v. Johnson, 61 Cal. 259; Stein Canal Co. v. Kern Island I. C. Co., 53 Cal. 563; Reynolds v. Hosmer, 51 Cal 205; Gregory v. Nelson, 41 Cal. 278; Clark v. Willett, 35 Cal. 534; Davis v. Gale, 32 Cal. 23; McDonald v. Askew, 29 Cal. 200; Hill v. Smith, 27 Cal. 476; 32 Cal. 166; Rupley v. Welch, 23 Cal. 543; Pheonix W. Co. v. Fletcher, Id. 482; Natoma W. Co. v. McCoy, Id. 490; Butte, etc., Co v. Morgan,19 Cal. 609; Kid v. Laird, 15 Cal. 161; Kimball v. Gearhart, 12 Caql. 27; Ortman v. Dixon, 18 Cal. 33; Bear River, etc., Co v. New York M. Co., 8 Cal. 327; Ophir Silver M. Co. v. Carpenter, 4 Nev. 534; Barnes v. Sabron, 10 Nev.217; Strait v. Brown, 16 Nev. 317; Atchison v. Peterson, 20 Wall, 515. "

Black Pomeroy Treatise on Water Rights available from:

American Patriot Party:  http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc
Klare Taylor Publishers
http://www.klaretaylorpublishers.com




This is not a state born privilege, but a VESTED TITLE IN THE RIGHT.
 

This is contrary to the States attempt to minimize the rights of the Vested water Right Holder in an attempt to draw vested rights into Post 1909 constrictions,and away from Common Law Doctorine Powers and Rights Vested of which continue to be valid in and of the right both today and in the future.

The cases sited would be used to determine cases in Oregon courts and across the west or anywhere Common Law is respected which is a "preexisting right in the people that exists whether it is written in a Constitution or not" See Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788.

One must also realize that Oregon did not become a state until 1859, so this 1893 "second printing" of over 560 pages relates to actual major cases established existing states, back to and including English doctrine cases; which the courts from all states drew from to make their decisions; Including Oregon.

Even at the time this reprint was printed, the author noted changes that were "unprecedented" in powers states were taking as they moved toward 1901 changes in western water law.

I have presented some Oregon Law in a reply post below that relates to this issue;

To show the validity of Common Law still in effect to existing rightsto water, Oregon present this law:

ORS 539.010 "...(4) The RIGHT of any person to take and use water SHALL NOT be "impaired or effected" by "ANY Provisions" of the water right act (as defined in ORS 537.010) where appropriations were initiated prior to February 24, 1909, and such appropriators, their heirs, or assigns did in good faith, and in compliance with the "LAWS THEN EXISTING",  commence the construction of works for the application of the water so appropriated to a beneficial use, and thereafter prosecuted such work diligently and continuously to completion. However all such RIGHTS shall be adjudicated in the same manner as provided in this chapter."

See Also:

Lords Oregon Laws 1909, Chapter VI '6594, '6595, VESTED RIGHTS PRESERVED; The water being put to beneficial use, See 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 & 8. In (2) it presents actual application "...shall be DEEMED to CREATE in such a riparian proprietor a Vested Right...." In (7): "Have in good Faith and diligently prosecuted SHALL NOT BE SET ASIDE OR VOIDED." Crandell vs Woods 1 8 Cal. 132, (1857) "...One who locates upon public lands with the view of appropriating them to his own use become "ABSOLUTE OWNER THEREOF"...The conclusion therefor reached, that the rights of a prior grantee from the United States as "AGAINST ANY SUBSEQUENT APPROPRIATORS of WATER, must be REGARDED AS COMPLETE ANDPERFECT"

Cases: 1 Bybee v. Oregon & Co., 139 U.S. 663, Sup. Ct. Rep. 641; Vansickle v. Hanes, 2 the supreme court of Nevada decided...1 2 Sawy. 450; and see Union Mill & M. Co. v. Ferris, 2 Sawy, 176. 3 7 Nev.249. (see Black Pomeroy for others)


 

HOW THE STATE IS TAKING THE WATER:


The methods used by the state, is that the state is "affecting" Vested Water Rights (they are expressly prohibited doing) using Both PROCEDURAL and "POST" provisions of the water right act to attempt to take and take water and powers held by right holders in the adjudication by these means:

a.) use of a persons lack of knowledge of the powers and rights they in fact still possess in that they filled out their claim not knowing their rights and riparian rights 100 years in the past; and not telling them, expecting they or their attorney (who are ignorant of common law water rights) to know.

b.) attempting to impose POST 1909 "beneficial use" parameters; i.e. what the "state" has determined as beneficial use, which is an arbitrary water per acre amount not established by the soil; ...a common law requirement. Or by modern applications and not flood irrigation.

c.) to make the Right Holder "divide up his right" and pay for "particular" uses, and any other use considered a NEW USE under POST 1909 Law; when under Common Laws (THEN EXISTING) The POWER POSSESSED of a Right to Irrigate, once diverted for that use, could be USED FOR "ANY OTHER USE" such as mining or milling throughout the year without any application to the state.

d.) to make the Right Holder LOOSE rights he in fact STILL possesses, to use water at
"DIFFERENT periods of TIME" during the year; IF he "states in his claim", (....unknowing the POWER of his right to use his right is YEAR ROUND for any purpose) he irrigated only 8 months, the State attempts to say he would "loose the right" to use that water the other 4 months for "other uses" (because he didn.t claim it or pay a SEPARATE FEE for a different use see (c.) above); and during "that 4 month period", the State is claiming to have the power to take that water, "remove (TAKE) the power of the right" and give the water to others who claim new rights; or Even more criminal, to give access to those that have earlier rights that overlap into that time period in the winter - Such as Non-consumptive uses, controlled by "POWER COMPANIES" "CITIES" and "UTILITIES";

Which under his POWERS of RIGHT under the LAWS THEN EXISTING, the APPROPRIATOR could use that water "any way he wished" during that time AS WELL, should he choose, so long as he did not purposely waste it or retain it without use just so that another couldn't; This is because the water "under TITLE"by the prior appropriator was held away from any acquisition by others unless it became naturally available, by abandonment or not used by the prior appropriator but not abandoned. i.e. used for any purpose he desired as it was (and still is) a RIGHTOF TITLE and USE.

--------

Black and Pomeroy Treaties on Water Rights 1893:


In Ortman v. Dixon it is HELD that a prior appropriator of water for "mill purposes" is "ENTITLED" to the "EXTENT OF HIS APPROPRIATION", and for those purposes to the EXCLUSION OF ANY SUBSEQUENT APPROPRIATION for the SAME AMOUNT >>>
"OR" FOR "OTHER PURPOSES".



Page 22: "Should the appropriator be precluded from thereafter
changing either its use or the place thereof? The reply must be in the NEGATIVE, for in "ALL CASES" the purpose of the appropriation is such that NO SUBSEQUENT appropriator can thereby be misled to his  injury. DISTINCT NOTICE is given in such cases, NOT ONLY that so much water is drawn from public supply, but that it's appropriation is such that it cannot be used a second time.  It is a notice that so much water is practically destroyed, - is eliminated fromexistence as water. A Subsequent locator has actual notice that this amount ofwater is >>> withdrawn  from >>>>>>>ALL PUBLIC CLAIM," is absorbed, and has become a VESTED RIGHT."

Page 119: "...In Kid v. Laird (15 Cal.161.) the doctrine on this subject was announced the doctrine on this subject was announced in the following "BROAD AND GENERAL MANNER": "A person entitled to divert a GIVEN
QUANTITY  of the water of a stream may take the water at any point of the stream and may change the point of diversion at "HIS" pleasure, if the rights of others are not injured by such change. This RIGHT OF CHANGE  >>>does not depend upon the mode of acquiring the right to use the Water, >>>whether by an express grant or by prescription, >>>>>>>>>>OR by parol license or "presumed consent" of the proprietor   . The difference as to the "origin of the right" affects "the mode" of "determining its existence and it's extent", [i. e., the AMOUNT of water APPROPRIATED,] and >>>>>>>"NOT the MANNER of its EXERCISE and ENJOYMENT"."

--------------------

Page 120: "Davis v. Gale ..."A person who has appropriated the water of a stream, and caused it to a particular place by a ditch, for a "specialuse",
MAY AFTERWARDS CHANGE THE USE, AND THE PLACE AT WHICH HE USED IT, WITHOUT LOSING HIS PRIORITY as against onewho dug a ditch from the same stream before the change was made. ...APPROPRIATION and use of water for beneficial "PURPOSES" are the tests of right in such cases, and >>>"not" the place and CHARACTER OF THE PARTICULAR USE."
;

b.) Milling - Machinery - A common law right to use for
any type ofmachinery,it is not limited, as post 1909 uses are and would have, because it was noteyet defined in laws at that time, domestic or commercial power turned bythe machinery granted in right;

c.) and Irrigation - Established field and riparian on ditches for stock ".

d.) Common law right to use of any or all such water under the vestedclaim amount for any other purposes during these times or any other.


Black Pomeroy Treatise on Law of Water Rights available from:

American Patriot Party:  http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc
Klare Taylor

Can you now see the Corruption?


OWRD and their legal counsel are corrupting the laws and taking advantage of Vested Water Right Holders using the procedure,  for the sole purpose of taking control of water they have absolutely NO right to..

So that the can place the water under powers taken by the state in 1909 and redistribute the water to others.



John Locke 222. The reason why men enter into society is the preservation of their property; and the end while they choose and authorize a legislative is that there may be laws made, and rules set, as guards and fences to the properties of all the society, tolimit the power and moderate the dominion of every part and member of thesociety. For since it can never be supposed to be the will of the society that the legislative should have a power to destroy that which every one designsto secure by entering into society, and for which the people submitted themselvesto legislators of their own making: whenever the legislators endeavourto take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce themto slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of warwith the people, who are thereupon absolved from any farther obedience, andare left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence. Whensoever, therefore, the LEGISLATIVE shall transgress this fundamental rule of society, and eitherby ambition, fear, folly, or corruption, endeavour to "grasp themselves", or put into the hands of any other, an absolute power over the lives, liberties, and estates of the people, by this breach of trust they forfeit the power the people had put into their hands for quite contrary ends, and it devolves to the people, who have a right to resume their original liberty, and by theestablishment of a new legislative (such as they shall think fit), provide for their own safety and security, (APP Note: See this in the Declaration of Independence) which is the end for which they are in society.



Note: See this also in:

 
Samuel Adams Statement within the Rights of the Colonists, 1772:  "If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up ANY essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation;the right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, and voluntarily become a slave."





 





POWERS of

VESTED RIGHTS










To illustrate where the state is attempting to assume powers it does not have, we will review the laws step by step to show where incorrect interpretations are being used to minimize protections established by 1909 statutes so to take undelegated powers over Common Law Vested Rights, Uses and Protections.

 

FIRST POINTS OF LAW:
 



1.) State is prohibited from placing Vested Rights under post 1909 statute.

Established by: Oregon Statute (ORS):

Cases cited:

ORS 539.010


(1) Actual application of water to beneficial use prior to February 24, 1909, by or under authority of any riparian proprietor or the predecessors in interest of the riparian proprietor,
shall be DEEMEDto "create" in the riparian proprietor a VESTED RIGHT to the extent of the"ACTUAL APPLICATION" to beneficial use; provided, such use has not been abandoned for a continuous period of two years.


"...(4) The RIGHT of any person to take and use water SHALL NOT be "impaired or effected" by "ANY Provisions" of the water right act (as defined in ORS 537.010) where appropriations were initiated prior to February 24, 1909, and such appropriators, their heirs, or assigns did in good faith, and in compliance with the
"LAWS THEN EXISTING",  commence the construction of works for the application of the water so appropriated to a beneficial use, and thereafter prosecuted such work diligently and continuously to completion. However all such RIGHTS shall be adjudicated in the samemanner as provided in this chapter."

(6) Where appropriations of water attempted before February 24, 1909, were undertaken in good faith, and the work of construction or improvement thereunder was in good faith commenced and diligently prosecuted, such appropriations shall
not be set aside or voided in PROCEEDINGS under this chapter because of "ANY" irregularity or insufficiency of the notice by law, or in the manner of posting, >>>>>>>"RECORDING"> or publication thereof.



2.) Rights are established and protected by laws in place AT THE TIME OF THE CLAIM was FIRST made.

Established by Oregon Supreme Court Ruling:

 Reports of Cases, Volume Decided in the Supreme Court of the State of Oregon, Volume 114, March 24,1925 to June 1925, Page #116:

"....Water and Water Courses - Title to Land Obtained Subject to LawsPrevailing.

(#26): "Those obtaining title to land take "SAME" subject to "LAWS THEN PREVAILING" "RELATING TO THE APPROPRIATION" OF "WATER" "



3.) State can only use the adjudication to establish acreage and that the water was beneficially used; The State however CANNOT DEFINE what is and what is not "beneficial use" using POST 1909 law.

Established by: OREGON STATUTES:
 

Cases cited:

ORS 539.010 "...(4) The RIGHT of any person to take and use water SHALL NOT be "impaired or effected" by "ANY Provisions" of the water right act (as defined in ORS 537.010) where appropriations were initiated prior to February 24, 1909, and such appropriators, their heirs, or assigns did in good faith, and in compliance with the "LAWS THEN EXISTING",  commence the construction of works for the application of the water so appropriated to a beneficial use, and thereafter prosecuted such work diligently and continuously to completion. However all such RIGHTS shall be adjudicated in the same manner as provided in this chapter."




4.) State cannot change or redefine the construct of the Right.

Comments: The state cannot take a right that has multiple uses defined in a single right, and then divide that right into three separate uses to make the right holder prove each use.

Why?

Vested rights once beneficially used under their doctrine can beused for ANY PURPOSE.

This is a established FACT.

Cases cited:

See Blacks Pomeroy on Water Rights Page 116 to 119. §69

SEE PAGES 116 to 119:  

§68 Appropriator may change place or manner of use.

Actual Excerpts:

"RIGHT to Exclusive Use of Water" " ..... The general doctrine is SETTLED, by the unanimous consent of the authorities, that the prior appropriator is entitled to the exclusive use of the water, up to the amount embraced in his "APPROPRIATION", either for the original purpose or for "ANY OTHER PURPOSE" or "DIFFERENT PURPOSE", provided the amount is not increased, without diminution or material altercation in quantity or quality; and his use will, to that extent and for such purposes, be protected against all subsequent appropriators, both above and below on the same stream; and to this end he may obtain all proper remedies, legal and equitable. 1"

Cases Sited: 1 " Himes v. Johnson, 61 Cal. 259; Stein Canal Co. v. Kern Island I. C. Co., 53 Cal. 563; Reynolds v. Hosmer, 51 Cal 205; Gregory v. Nelson, 41 Cal. 278; Clark v. Willett, 35 Cal. 534; Davis v. Gale, 32 Cal. 23; McDonald v. Askew, 29 Cal. 200; Hill v. Smith, 27 Cal. 476; 32 Cal. 166; Rupley v. Welch, 23 Cal. 543; Pheonix W. Co. v. Fletcher, Id. 482; Natoma W. Co. v. McCoy, Id. 490; Butte, etc., Co v. Morgan,19 Cal. 609; Kid v. Laird, 15 Cal. 161; Kimball v. Gearhart, 12 Caql. 27; Ortman v. Dixon, 18 Cal. 33; Bear River, etc., Co v. New York M. Co., 8 Cal. 327; Ophir Silver M. Co. v. Carpenter, 4 Nev. 534; Barnes v. Sabron, 10 Nev.217; Strait v. Brown, 16 Nev. 317; Atchison v. Peterson, 20 Wall, 515. "

In Ortman v. Dixon it is HELD that a prior appropriator of water for "mill purposes" is
"ENTITLED" to the "EXTENT OF HIS APPROPRIATION", and for those purposes to the EXCLUSION OF ANY SUBSEQUENT APPROPRIATIONfor the SAME AMOUNT >>>"OR" FOR "OTHER PURPOSES".



Blacks Pomeroy on Water Rights: §69 Page 118-123:

 
"Appropriator" may change the place and manner of use.

Page 118: "Whenever a prior appropriation has been made for a certainkind of purpose or use, the appropriator MAY, as against other parties whose rights have accrued subsequently to his own, change the place of his use for the same purpose, if ...not increased beyond that of his original appropriation; and it seems that he
MAY, as against such parties, change the NATURE OF THE PURPOSE OR USE to which the water was applied, provided the amount ...is not increased..... These conclusions seem to be established by the decisions. In Woolman v. Garringer (1 Mont. 535.) it was held that a prior appropriator for minning purposes at a certain place, may extend hisditch, and use his water, to the extent of his original appropriation,at "any" other place, for the same "or other" purposes".



Page 119: "...In Kid v. Laird (15 Cal.161.) the doctrine on this subject was announced the doctrine on this subject was announced in the following "BROAD AND GENERAL MANNER": "A person entitled to divert a GIVEN QUANTITY  of the water of a stream may take the water at any point of the stream and may change the point of diversion at "his" pleasure, if the rights of others are not injured by such change. This RIGHT OF CHANGE  >>>does notdepend upon the mode of acquiring the right to use the Water, >>>whether by an express grant or by prescription, >>>>>>>>>>OR by parol license or "presumed consent" of the proprietor   . The difference as to the "origin of the right" affects "the mode" of "determining its existence and it's extent", [i. e., the AMOUNT of water APPROPRIATED,] and >>>>>>>"NOT the MANNER of its EXERCISE and ENJOYMENT"."


--------------------

Page 120: "Davis v. Gale ..."A person who has appropriated the water of a stream, and caused it to a particular place by a ditch, for a "specialuse",
MAY AFTERWARDS CHANGE THE USE, AND THE PLACE AT WHICH HE USED IT, WITHOUT LOSING HIS PRIORITY as against onewho dug a ditch from the same stream before the change was made. ...APPROPRIATION and use of water for beneficial "PURPOSES" are the tests of right in such cases, and >>>"not" the place and CHARACTER OF THE PARTICULAR USE."
;


Page 22: "Should the appropriator be precluded from thereafter changing either its use or the place thereof? The reply must be in the NEGATIVE, for in "ALL CASES" the purpose of the appropriation is such that NO SUBSEQUENT appropriator can thereby be misled to his  injury. DISTINCT NOTICE is given in such cases, NOT ONLY that "so much" water is drawn from public supply, but that it's appropriation is such that it cannot be used a second time.  It is a notice that so much water is practically destroyed, - is eliminated from existence as water. A Subsequent locator has actual notice that this amount of water is >>> withdrawn from >>>>>>> "ALL PUBLIC CLAIM"," is absorbed, and has become a VESTED RIGHT."

 

NOTE:
 

The change of irrigation in partor full or temporary uses to milling or mining would entitle the user to uses that would be "YEAR ROUND"

The state ATTEMPTS and without any authority, to limit "portions of the year" through either irrigation periods or statements by the vested right holder in the recent (1990's) "recording his claim";

Or to "divide a Right" that has
INFINITE uses to that ONE Right,  for "Domestic, Milling and Irrigation" or other; This is a general use claim for the benefit of the right holder and Domestic, Milling and irrigation are a year round use and a power of the right when ever they (we)find a need, it is a right of title.

The attempt by the state to remove this right of
INFINITE uses, is arrogating a state powerwhich has been expressly prohibited and a power NOT GRANTED THE STATE; anattempt so as to redefine the powers possessed of a vested right which isdetermined by DITCH and ORIGINAL APPROPRIATION and "NOT" PERIOD OF USE duringthe year.





5.) POSSESSION of the right for these uses after diverting for oneor more of them establishes the right of use for all purposes of the original claim for, but not limited to:

a.) "Domestic - Year round and established - includes Livestock, household, orchard, machinery and many other uses under common law; Not simply as riparian, but as part and power of the right that was granted in TITLE to use:

Black and Pomeroy Treaties on Water Rights 1893:

Page 22: "Should the appropriator be precluded from thereafter
changing either its use or the place thereof? The reply must be in the NEGATIVE, for in "ALL CASES" the purpose of the appropriation is such that NO SUBSEQUENT appropriator can thereby be misled to his  injury. DISTINCT NOTICE is given in such cases, NOT ONLY that so much water is drawn from public supply, but that it's appropriation is such that it cannot be used a second time.  It is a notice that so much water is practically destroyed, - is eliminated fromexistence as water. A Subsequent locator has actual notice that this amount ofwater is >>> withdrawn  from >>>>>>>ALL PUBLIC CLAIM," is absorbed, and has become a VESTED RIGHT."

Page 119: "...In Kid v. Laird (15 Cal.161.) the doctrine on this subject was announced the doctrine on this subject was announced in the following "BROAD AND GENERAL MANNER": "A person entitled to divert a GIVEN
QUANTITY  of the water of a stream may take the water at any point of the stream and may change the point of diversion at "HIS" pleasure, if the rights of others are not injured by such change. This RIGHT OF CHANGE  >>>does not depend upon the mode of acquiring the right to use the Water, >>>whether by an express grant or by prescription, >>>>>>>>>>OR by parole license or "presumed consent" of the proprietor   . The difference as to the "origin of the right" affects "the mode" of"determining its existence and it's extent", [i. e., the AMOUNT ofwater APPROPRIATED,] and >>>>>>>"NOT the MANNER of its EXERCISE and ENJOYMENT"."


Page 120: "Davis v. Gale ..."A person who has appropriated the water of a stream, and caused it to a particular place by a ditch, for a "special use", MAY AFTERWARDS CHANGE THE USE, AND THE PLACE AT WHICH HE USED IT, WITHOUT LOSING HIS PRIORITY as against onewho dug a ditch from the same stream before the change was made. ...APPROPRIATION and use of water for beneficial "PURPOSES" are the tests of right in such cases, and >>>"not" the place and CHARACTER OF THE PARTICULAR USE."

Black Pomeroy Treatise on Water Rights available from:

American Patriot Party:  http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc
Klare Taylor Publishers
http://www.klaretaylorpublishers.com


b.) Milling - Machinery - A common law right to use for any type of machinery, it is not limited, as post 1909 uses are and would have, because it was note yet defined in laws at that time, domestic or commercial power turned by the machinery granted in right;



c.) Irrigation and Livestock - Established field and riparian on ditches for stock ".



d.) ANY OTHER PURPOSE: Common law right to use of any or all such water under the vested claim amount for any other purposes
during these times or ANY OTHER.



 

 

6.) State cannot change or redefine Rights created under Common Law Doctrine;

Protections continue to be possessed bythe Vested right(s) having been established under it.


Article 25 of the American Declaration of the Rights and Duties of Man provides in part that "[n]o person may be deprived of his liberty except in the cases and according to the procedures established by pre-existing law." The right to be tried in accordance to "pre-existing law" is reiterated in article 26.

Absolute Rights of the Colonists 1772 by Samuel Adams:

In Full:
http://www.AMERICANPATRIOTPARTY.CC (Suggested ReadingDocuments)

"Samuel Adams 1772: "...Thirdly, The supreme power (legislative) cannot Justly take from any man, ANY PART of his property without his consent,in person
"OR" BY HIS "REPRESENTATIVE".--

These are some of the "FIRST PRINCIPLES" of natural law & Justice, and the great Barriers of "ALL FREE STATES", and of the British Constitution in particular. It is utterly irreconcileable to these principles, and to many other fundamental maxims of the common law, common sense and reason, that a British house of commons, should have a right, at pleasure, to "give and grant" the "property" of the Colonists...."

 



7.) The State CANNOT charge a fee after dividing a right in such a way, then omit uses of the water to any claim for failure to pay such fee IN SUBMITTING THEIR CLAIM for each of the state defined and divided uses, that the right holder  "ALREADY" possesses in their ONE rightthat can be used for "ALL PURPOSES" and at "ANY TIME OF THE YEAR".

The state cannot simply claim it has a ruling that it is "Not Unconstitutional " to ask a fee, then attempt to throw out valid vested rights from lack of receiving such a fee when the whole purpose of the Adjudication is to protect valid vested water rights.

This is an obvious "evincing of a design" to wrest valid rights away from valid Vested Right Holders.



8.) ORS states no deficiency of recording or posting shall endanger a valid vested right.

A Claim is a RECORDING;

NOTE:
  The adjudication is the THIRD TIME THE STATE HAS REQUIRED WATER RIGHT HOLDERS TO "RECORD" THEIR CLAIM:

a.) at the time of claim;
b.) in 1899 and
c.) at the time of the adjudication;

The state cannot discard the first two, divide the third claim and then say that the Claimant has lost rights because he did not "claim" them inhis "claim form" 100 years after the first 2 claims were made.

ORS 539.010 :

(6) Where appropriations of water attempted before February 24, 1909,were undertaken in good faith, and the work of construction or improvementthereunder was in good faith commenced and diligently prosecuted,
such "appropriations" "SHALL NOT" be set aside or voided in "proceedings" under this chapter because of any irregularity or insufficiency of the notice by law, or in the manner of posting, >>>>>>>"RECORDING"> or publication thereof.


ORS 539.010


(1) Actual application of water to beneficial use prior to February 24, 1909, by or under authority of any riparian proprietor or the predecessors in interest of the riparian proprietor,
shall be >>>>>>>>>>>>>DEEMEDto "create" in the riparian proprietor a VESTED RIGHT to the extent of the"ACTUAL APPLICATION" to beneficial use; provided, such use has not been abandoned for a continuousperiod of two years.


"...(4) The RIGHT of any person to take and use water SHALL NOT be "impaired or effected" by "ANY Provisions" of the water right act (as defined in ORS 537.010) where appropriations were initiated prior to February 24, 1909, and such appropriators, their heirs, or assigns did in good faith, and in compliance with the
"LAWS THEN EXISTING",  commence the construction of works for the application of the water so appropriated to a beneficial use, and thereafter prosecuted such work diligently and continuously to completion. However all such RIGHTS shall be adjudicated in the samemanner as provided in this chapter."
 

 

QUICK QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS


1.) Question:

Note: This question omits actual willing abandonment.

"Can a vested right be lost" to simple nonuse, such as a farm setting dormant until another family member or new buyer begins to use the vested water right again or a company stops using the water;

Individual

Corporation

 

NO

YES

 
 

After 1 or 2 Years

 





Common law establishes that a "individuals" right is not lost whether he uses the water or not, and that junior claims to the water remain junior.

 

It simply allows the junior right to use the water when the senior right holder's use is satisfied or during the period it is not used.

Blacks  Pomeroy on water rights page 116 -119 §69 site these determiners:

Corporations Non Use:

Exclusive Rights of Individual Vested Right Holders:

Abandonment:


2.) Question:

Can the state arbitrarily determine beneficial water amounts to acreages?

ANSWER: NO.

Soils are different everywhere. And each location has different demands.

Delivery systems are different. Flood and sprinkler are different in cost, labor, upkeep, maintenance efficiency and delivery.



3.) Question:

Can acreage be determined by the state universally and in all cases by a Section or Aerial Map?

ANSWER: NO

Terrain is different. - a 45° + hillside can have 1/3 or more acreage in which to claim use or beneficial use upon.

This actual surface area will not be seen on a section map or on a aerial photograph.

A actual ground survey that shows actual terrain footage must be established. This is the Determiner.

Otherwise, over 1/3 of an irrigated pasture could be lost by insufficient water amounts being established.



4.) Question:

 Can aerial maps be used to determine acreage?

ANSWER: NO.

This is an attorney trick.

Usually backed by so called "professional" aerial examiners and computer programed gimmicks overlaying line on the aerial with computer generated acreage.

Sometimes the thickness of the computer line itself removes many acres from the total.

The height of the airplane from the ground is often attempted to assure the person that it is an accurate measurement, which it can never be.

Unless Actual MEETS and BOUNDS are established from Actual Survey Points, no measurement is accurate and no such measurement should ever be accepted by any so called "professional";

Which he would not be if he attempted to sell such an obserdity.



5.) Question:

Can a Vested water right be used for any purpose?

ANSWER: YES.

This is without question a VESTED RIGHT.

Blacks Pomeroy on Water Rights establishes clearly that a Vested water right after it has been beneficially used can be used for any use!

SEE PAGES 116 to 119:  

§68 Appropriator may change place or manner of use.

Actual Excerpts:

"RIGHT to Exclusive Use of Water" " ..... The general doctrine is SETTLED, by the unanimous consent of the authorities, that the prior appropriator is entitled to the exclusive use of the water, up to the amount embraced in his appropriation, either for theoriginal purpose or for ANY OTHER PURPOSE or DIFFERENT PURPOSE, provided theamount is not increased, without diminution or material altercation in quantityor quality; and his use will, to that extent and for such purposes, be protectedagainst all subsequent appropriators, both above and below on the same stream;and to this end he may obtain all proper remedies, legal and equitable. 1"

Cases Sited: 1 " Himes v. Johnson, 61 Cal. 259; Stein Canal Co. v. Kern Island I. C. Co., 53 Cal. 563; Reynolds v. Hosmer, 51 Cal 205; Gregory v. Nelson, 41 Cal. 278; Clark v. Willett, 35 Cal. 534; Davis v. Gale, 32 Cal. 23; McDonald v. Askew, 29 Cal. 200; Hill v. Smith, 27 Cal. 476; 32 Cal. 166; Rupley v. Welch, 23 Cal. 543; Pheonix W. Co. v. Fletcher, Id. 482; Natoma W. Co. v. McCoy, Id. 490; Butte, etc., Co v. Morgan,19 Cal. 609; Kid v. Laird, 15 Cal. 161; Kimball v. Gearhart, 12 Caql. 27; Ortman v. Dixon, 18 Cal. 33; Bear River, etc., Co v. New York M. Co., 8 Cal. 327; Ophir Silver M. Co. v. Carpenter, 4 Nev. 534; Barnes v. Sabron, 10 Nev. 217; Strait v. Brown, 16 Nev. 317; Atchison v. Peterson, 20 Wall, 515. "

Black Pomeroy Treatise on Water Rights available from:

American Patriot Party:  http://www.americanpatriotparty.cc

Klare Taylor Publishers
http://www.klaretaylorpublishers.com


This is not a state born privilege, but a VESTED RIGHT.

 



 

This is contrary to the States attemptto minimize the rights of the Vested water Right Holder in an attempt todraw vested rights into Post 1909 constrictions, and away from common lawpowers and rights Vested of which continue to be valid in the righttoday and in the future.


6.) Question:

With regard to power, can this be used for power?

Answer: YES.

It was established that power companies are NOT CLAIMANTS with regard to operating power generation plants prior to 1909.

This places electrical use under Common Law doctrine of running any type of motoring or milling  device.

Common law again allows other uses with only few restrictions such asnot taking the water away from the basin of origin or changing a nonconsumptive use to a consumptive use which would lessen quantity or quality of water to subsiquient users.

Consumptive to nonconsumptive by an individual does not establish abandonment of consumptive unless there is a removal of all construct of the consumptive; Often a non consumptive use can be employed along with the consumptive to provide greater benefit and efficiency to the vested right holder and is a right, not a state born privilege.

Vested rights are not under post 1909 rules and the state is expressly prohibited from forcing them to be.

States have without authorization in law, attempted to put all parties under 1909 regulations when those rights are securely under .

















 






John Locke
on
Civil Government


 

John Locke 212. Besides this overturning from without, governments are dissolved from within:

First. When the legislative is altered, civil society being a state of peace amongst those who are of it, from whom the state of war is excluded by the umpirage which they have provided in their legislative for the ending all differences that may arise amongst any of them; it is in their legislative that the members of a commonwealth are united and combined together into onecoherent living body. This is the soul that gives form, life, and unity tothe commonwealth; from hence the several members have their mutual influence, sympathy, and connection; and therefore when the legislative is broken, or dissolved, dissolution and death follows. For the essence and union of the society consisting in having one will, the legislative, when once established by the majority, has the declaring and, as it were, keeping of that will. The constitution of the legislative is the first and fundamental act of society, whereby provision is made for the continuation of their union under the direction of persons and bonds of laws, made by persons authorized thereunto, by the consent and appointment of the people, without which no one man, or number of men, amongst them can have authority of making laws that shall be binding to the rest. When any one, or more, shall take upon them to make laws whom the people have not appointed so to do, they make laws without authority, which the people are not therefore bound to obey; by which means they come again to be out of subjection, and may constitute to themselves a new legislative, as they think best, being in full liberty to resist the force of those who, without authority, would impose anything upon them. Every one is at the disposure of his own will, when those who had, by the "delegation" of the society,the declaring of the public will, are excluded from it, and others usurpthe place who have no such authority or delegation.

John Locke 213. This being usually brought about by such in the commonwealth, who misuse the power they have, it is hard to consider it aright, and know at whose door to lay it, without knowing the form of government in which it happens. Let us suppose, then, the legislative placed in the concurrence of three distinct persons: -- First, a single hereditary person having the constant, supreme, executive power, and with it the power of convoking and dissolving the other two within certain periods of time. Secondly, an assembly of hereditary nobility. Thirdly, an assembly of representatives chosen, pro tempore, by the people. Such a form of government supposed,it is evident:

John Locke 214. First, that when such a single person or prince sets up his own arbitrary will in place of the laws which are the will of the society declared by the legislative, then the legislative is changed. For that being, in effect, the legislative whose rules and laws are put in execution, and required to be obeyed, when other laws are set up, and other rules pretended and enforced than what the legislative, constituted by the society, have enacted, it is plain that the legislative is changed. Whoever introduces new laws, not being thereunto authorized, bythe fundamental appointment of the society, or subverts the old, disowns andoverturns the power by which they were made, and so sets up a new legislative.

John Locke 215. Secondly, when the prince hinders the legislative from assembling in its due time, or from acting freely, pursuant to those ends for which it was constituted, the legislative is altered. For it is not a certain number of men -- no, nor their meeting, unless they have also freedom of debating and leisure of perfecting whatis for the good of the society, wherein the legislative consists; when these are taken away, or altered, so as to deprive the society of the due exercise of their power, the legislative is truly altered. For it is not names that constitute governments, but the use and exercise of those powers that were intended to accompany them; so that he who takes away the freedom, or hinders the acting of the legislative in its due seasons, in effect takes away the legislative, and puts an end to the government.

John Locke 216. Thirdly, when, by the arbitrary power of the prince, the electors or ways of election are altered without the consent and contrary to the common interest of the people, there also the legislative is altered. For if others than those whom the society hath authorized thereunto do choose, or in another way than what the society hath prescribed, those chosen are not the legislative appointed by the people.

John Locke 217. Fourthly, the delivery also of the people into the subjection of a foreign power, either by the prince or by the legislative, is certainly a change of the legislative, and so a dissolution of the government. For the end why people entered into society being to be preserved one entire, free, independent society to be governed by its own laws, this is lost whenever they are given up into the power of another.

John Locke 218. Why, in such a constitution as this, the dissolution of the government in these cases is to be imputed to the prince is evident, because he, having the force, treasure, and offices of the State to employ, and often persuading himself or being flattered by others, that, as supreme magistrate, he is incapable of control; he alone is in a condition to make great advances towards such changes under pretense of lawful authority, and has it in his hands to terrify or suppress opposers as factious, seditious, and enemies to the government; whereas no other part of the legislative, or people, is capable by themselves to attempt any alteration of the legislative without open and visible rebellion, apt enough to betaken notice of, which, when it prevails, produces effects very little different from foreign conquest. Besides, the prince, in such a form of government, having the power of dissolving the other parts of the legislative, and thereby rendering them private persons, they can never, in opposition to him, orwithout his concurrence, alter the legislative by a law, his consent beingnecessary to give any of their decrees that sanction. But yet so far as theother parts of the legislative any way contribute to any attempt upon thegovernment, and do either promote, or not, what lies in them, hinder suchdesigns, they are guilty, and partake in this,
which is certainly the greatest crime men can be guilty of one towards another.

John Locke 219. There is one way more whereby such a government may be dissolved, and that is: When he who has the supreme executive power neglects and abandons that charge, so that the laws already made can no longer be put in execution; this is demonstratively to reduce all to anarchy, and so effectively to dissolve the government. For laws not being made for themselves, but to be, by their execution, the bonds of the society to keep every part of the body politic in its due place and function. When that totally ceases, the government visibly ceases, and the people become a confused multitude without order or connection. Where there is no longer the administration ofjustice for the securing of men's rights, nor any remaining power within thecommunity to direct the force, or provide for the necessities of the public,there certainly is no government left. Where the laws cannot be executed itis all one as if there were no laws, and a government without laws is, Isuppose, a mystery in politics inconceivable to human capacity, and inconsistent with human society.

John Locke 220. In these, and the likecases, when the government is dissolved, the people are at liberty to providefor themselves by erecting a new legislative differing from the other bythe change of persons, or form, or both, as they shall find it most for their safety and good. For the society can never, by the fault of another, lose the native and original right it has to preserve itself, which can only be done by a settled legislative and a fair and impartial execution of the laws made by it. But the state of mankind is not so miserable that they are not capable of using this remedy till it be too late to look for any. To tell people they may provide for themselves by erecting a new legislative, when, by oppression, artifice, or being delivered over to a foreign power, their old one is gone, is only to tell them they may expect relief when it is too late, and the evil is past cure. This is, in effect, no more than to bid themfirst be slaves, and then to take care of their liberty, and, when their chainsare on, tell them they may act like free men. This, if barely so, is rathermockery than relief, and men can never be secure from tyranny if there beno means to escape it till they are perfectly under it; and, therefore, itis that they have not only a right to get out of it, but to prevent it.

John Locke 221. There is, therefore, secondly, another way whereby governments are dissolved, and that is, when the legislative, or the prince, either of them act contrary to their trust.

For the legislative acts against the trust reposed in them whenthey endeavour to invade the property of the subject, and to makethemselves, or any part of the community, masters or arbitrary disposersof the lives, liberties, or fortunes of the people.

John Locke 222. The reason why men enter into society is the preservation of their property; and the end while they choose and authorize a legislative is that there may be laws made,and rules set, as guards and fences to the properties of all the society,to limit the power and moderate the dominion of every part and member ofthe society. For since it can never be supposed to be the will of the societythat the legislative should have a power to destroy that which every onedesigns to secure by entering into society, and for which the people submittedthemselves to legislators of their own making: whenever the legislators endeavourto take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them toslavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war withthe people, who are thereupon absolved from any farther obedience, and areleft to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against forceand violence. Whensoever, therefore, the legislative shall transgress thisfundamental rule of society, and either by ambition, fear, folly, or corruption,

(APP Note: See this in Samuel Adams Statement within the Rights of the Colonists, 1772:  "If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation; the right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, and voluntarily become a slave.")

endeavour to grasp themselves, or put into the hands of any other, an absolute power over the lives, liberties, and estates of the people, by this breach of trust they forfeit the power the people had put into their hands for quite contrary ends, and it devolves to the people, who have a rightto resume their original liberty, and by the establishment of a new legislative (such as they shall think fit), provide for their own safety and security, (APP Note: See this in the Declaration of Independence) which is the end for which they are in society. What I have said here concerning the legislative in general holds true also concerning the supreme executor, who having a double trust put in him, both to have a part in the legislative and the supreme execution of the law, acts against both, when he goes about to set up his own arbitrary will as the law of the society. He acts also contrary to his trust when he employs the force, treasure, and offices of the society to corrupt the representatives and gain them to his purposes, when he openly pre-engages the electors, and prescribes, to their choice, such whom he has, by solicitation, threats, promises, or otherwise, won tohis "designs", and employs them to bring in such who have promised beforehand what to vote and what to enact. Thus to regulate candidates and electors, and new model the ways of election, what is it but to cut up the government by the roots, and poison the very fountain of public security? For the people having reserved to themselves the choice of their representatives as the fence to their properties, could do it for no other end but that they might always be freely chosen, and so chosen, freely act and advise as the necessity of the commonwealth and the public good should, upon examination and mature debate, be judged to require. This, those who give their votes before they hear the debate, and have weighed the reasons on all sides, are not capable of doing. To prepare such an assembly as this, and endeavour to set up the declared abettors of his own will, for the true representatives of the people, and the law-makers of the society, is certainly as great a breach of trust, and as perfect a declaration of a "design"

(APP Note: See this in the Declaration of Independence and compare 223-226:

 (" ... But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a "design" to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government  and to provide new guards for their future security.)

to subvert the government, as is possible to be met with. To which, if one shall add rewards and punishments visibly employed to the same end, and all the arts of perverted law made use of to take off and destroy all that stand in the way of such a >>"design"  , and will not comply and consent to betray the liberties of their country, it will be past doubt what is doing. What power they ought to have in the society who thus employ it contrary to the trust that along with it in its first institution, is easy to determine; and one cannot but see that he who has once attempted any such thing as this cannot any longer be trusted.
 




 



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Zoning and other Regulations that obstruct truly free enterprise but for those who can purchase or manipulate them are a bane to true liberty and above all other factors in this country create unemployment.

Zoning does not control growth, Zoning and regulations control people; and forces free enterprise into the open arms of a government bureaucracy where growth is untethered; Increasing social bureaucratic dependency and increasing the burden on free enterprise and a free people.

 


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John Locke 222:   The reason why menenter into society is the preservation of their "property"; and the end while they choose and authorize a legislative is that there may be laws made, and rules set, as "guards" and "fences" to the properties of all the society, to limit the "power" and moderate the "dominion" of every part and member of the society.

For since it can
>>>"never" be supposed   to be the will of the society thatthe legislative should have a power to destroy that which everyone >>>designs to secure   by entering into society, and for which the people submitted themselves tolegislators of their own making:

"whenever" the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the "property" of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a "state of war with the people",

who are thereupon absolved from "any farther obedience", and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence. Whensoever, therefore, the legislative shall "transgress" this fundamental rule of society,"


John Locke 149:  "....And thus the community perpetually retains a supreme power of saving themselves from the "attempts" and "designs" of "anybody", even of their "legislators", whenever they shall be so "foolish" or so "wicked" as to lay and carry on "designs" against the liberties and "properties" of the subject.

For no man or society of men having a powerto deliver up their preservation, or consequently the "means" of it, to the absolute will and arbitrary "dominion" of another, whenever any one shall go about to bring them into such a slavish condition, they will always have a right to preserve what they have not a power to part with, and to
"rid" themselves of "those" who invade this fundamental, sacred, and unalterablelaw of self-preservation "for which" they "entered" into "society". ..."


 


Foolish Environmental Proposals:


RE: Klamath Falls Hearing Statement, Oregon Natural Resources Council(Environmental Group Now "Oregon Wild" .org) June 16th, 2001

See the Environmentalist Statement - (Andy Kerr)
http://www.andykerr.net/KlamathBasin/KFHearingStatement.html



 

In Rebuttal


In opposition to such notions that environmentalists such as these have, it is historically established that such notions are founded in the advancement of socialism:




Our advice to Klamath Falls County Citizens and Klamath County Government is to:

 

1.) Establish County laws restricting federal intervention of local County laws and local County legislation.

The Federal government is not a "party" but a servant. It is limited to what delegated powers under which it was first established. Powers to debate local issues on water use, or land use is not a power that was delegated to it. When the state was created, the land fell to the state and their respective counties.

The federal government therefore has no say, it is not only neutral, but a non entity . The only delegated power is for transferring its lands and powers in those lands, into the hands of the people of each state and community the land resides for distribution to the citizens who wish to reside there.

The only land the federal government may possess in limited portions that have been sanctified by each state, is for forts. That's it.

This is established in the
Constitutional Debates, the federal government has no policing powers of federal law outside the "10 mile square" of Washington DC, and cannot create such laws that effect the Union at Large;

Only after a declaration of war granted by states to beused in foreign wars;

State insurrections are state controlled operations that can request aid from the federal government - i.e. other state's militia; but the federal government
cannot dictate, the state havingfull powers of application over military and militia while within the boarders of the state that requested assistance.

See Constitutional Debate.


2.) Establish Federal Bills that will Transfer all Federal Lands into the ownership and Control of the counties.

This is to provide local commonwealths most closely effected (1 - 5 miles maximum area) within the county exclusive powers of their area over outside manipulations or controls. Bringing control to citizens most affected within that County by and to any issue of their area.




3.) Ranchers need to work to increase values of land, and NOT fall prey to selling at a cut rateto the federal Government, but to remove the federal government from the county, and remove adverse zoning laws to allow smaller ranches, for homes and businesses of all types so that more people canbenefit from the land;

This is far more practical than removing productive land from availability to private ownership bycitizens.




4.)
Remove the Funnel created by the Federal governments involvement in the county which has allowed  paths for  national and international environmental laws into your county and state, and you will remove the chains of socialism from your wrists.

They will be removed because "the federal government will not be there" as a catalyst for the environmental movement to ride upon; or for the environmental movement to derive power from, to dictate what you do with your private land.

The power will be gone from them, and into your hands; as you, and your county and local communities will have "absolute control of the land for your personal and family's benefit".


You will have removed the powers of a distant and unconcerned legislator over your private property.




5.) Do you know why your land would be hard at this time to derive profit either in production or sale?

a.) Because you are "denied the right" to "use it" as "you see fit".

b.)
You are limited by mandated zoning laws passed from federal to state to county restricting the size you may sell at.

c.) You are restricted by what type of business you can have and where it can be located.




6.) Zoning exceeds simple practical building codes and practical pollution standards and arbitrarily decides what, where and how you live and do business.

Get rid of the federal government and zoning from your communities and you still can retain your building codes and pollution standards, but you will be able to do what you want with your property.




7.)
Environmentalists attempt to shroud their intent and goals to remove land and power from communities.

They use "catch phrases" after presenting what they determine a real value which is usually 1/20 or less the real value, then offer to double it for "Willing Sellers"  and say, it is  because it is "...just the right thing to do" (Andy Kerr Public Hearing Statement:  http://www.andykerr.net/KlamathBasin/KFHearingStatement.html )

Kerr and others like him use the same tactics in their bid to removing leasees from the Cascade Siskiyou Monument saying that the ranchers need to be "kept whole" offering them a choice to either willingly sell at "their stipulated price - value" or risk getting nothing for their lease land by simply pressuring the BLM through bogus and slanted studies by so called  "environmental Professionals" all trained by college professors with the same prejudice and endless studies that insure continuation of the professions they teach.

They will then will "of course" increase elk herds in place of cattle herds; Then establish more federally "mandated" studies; That forcibly paid by you through arbitrary forced and mandated, non enumerated unconstitutional taxation; So to benefit from the turmoil stirred up by these environmental groups and professional environmentalists for job security through donations sent in from environmental brain washing of others and government contracts... again forcibly paid by you through arbitrary forced and mandated, non enumerated unconstitutional taxation.

Kerr's article attempts to rationalize his environmental impositions by indicating the federal government would be able to purchase what he terms "marginal farm land" after a lengthy speech inhis article on how much subsidized farming there is in Klamath Falls, andthat at 4,000 feet elevation he presents that it is ...really not the idealfor farming;

This type of statement clearly attempting to disillusion both the land owners and the public into believing their highly valuable land that is ideal for Farming, simply because it is flat, farmable, rich soiled, easily accessible and above all, has extremely valuable water rights...

Water rights which they the environmentalists, of course, are after to take away from the land and really devalue it; so the land itself can be taken for minimal cost now or later.

Kerr concedes that $4000.oo an acre (twice of what he personally has deemed it is worth) is not enough however to compensate for the "loss of life style" ... but Kerr explains ....enough to "get clear of the bank" and have a "little something" left for retirement or the kid's "college fund"....


.....How thoughtful of him, and so not to be construed incorrectly, a statement I sarcastically have presented.




8.) It appears that there are always environmentalists there  to relieve you of the "burdensom" land you own from prices "held down from mandated zoning laws" and "controlled market prices".

By getting rid of zoning, the land value will increase because of the many other uses can be freely developed ateach person's and property owner's will.




9.) We will show you how to make your farmland valuable.

Convince your county commissioners to refuse state and federal zoning mandates. Our Elect those who will.

Take away restrictions on property soranchers will be able to break their land into "market determined" smaller parcels,  divide the land, build upon them and use them "as they see fit".

The  land would then command far higher "per acre" free market prices.

There will not only be money for the kids college fund and retirement, but for investment and farm and lifestyle improvement.

Not only that, but land will be more available for ownership by others and their posterity. 

Farmers outweigh environmentalists in the Klamath Falls area;

Vote the right farmers into county positions that will take command, establish local laws that defy state and federal undelegated impositions, empower local law enforcement of those laws and protect the rights and property of thepeople in the Klamath Basin.

Make your laws and Use the local laws and powers  to take control and protect property rights in land and water.



John Locke: 186. "The conqueror, it is true, usually by the force he has over them, compels them, with a sword at their breasts, to stoop to his conditions, and submit to such a government as he pleases to afford them; but the inquiry is, what right he has to do so? If it be said they submit by their own consent, then this allows their own consent to be necessary to give the conqueror a title to rule over them. It remains only to be considered whether promises, extorted by force, >>>"without right"   , can be "thought consent", and how far they "bind".

To which I shall say,
>>>"they bind not at all"   ; because >>>"whatsoever" >>>"another">>>>>>>>gets from me "by force"        ,  (APP Note: Without Consent)

 I still retain the right of, and he is obliged presently to restore. He that forces my horse from me ought presently to restore him, and I have still a right to retake him.

By the same reason,
he that forced a promise from me ought presently to restore it -- i.e., quit me of the obligation of it; or I may resume it myself -- i.e., choose whether I will perform it.

For the law of Nature laying an obligation on me, only by the rules she prescribes, "cannot obligeme" by the violation of her rules; such is the "extorting" >>>"anything" from me "by force"   .

Nor does it "at all" alter the case, to say I gave my promise, no more than it excuses the force, and passes the right, when I put my hand in my pocket and deliver my purse myself to a thief who demands it with a pistol at my breast."

 

Combating Intimidation

Intimidation, whether immediate or eventual, is as much a method of force as is a pistol, or arbitrary law that engages the public powers that possess the means to wrest property or rights to use property from a rightful owners hands.




John Locke 193. But granting that the conqueror, in a just war, has a right to the estates, as well as power over the persons of the conquered, which, it is plain, hehath not, nothing of absolute power will follow from hence in the continuance of the government. Because the descendants of these being all free men, if he grants them estates and possessions to inhabit his country, without which it would be worth nothing, whatsoever he grants them they have so far as it is granted property in; the nature whereof is, that, without a man's own consent, it cannot be taken from him.

John Locke 194. Their persons are free by a native right, and their properties, be they more or less, are their own, and at their own dispose, and not at his; or else itis no property. Supposing the conqueror gives toone man a thousand acres, to him and his heirs for ever; to another he letsa thousand acres, for his life, under the rent of L50 or L500 per annum. Has not the one of these aright to his thousand acres for ever, and the other during his life,paying the said rent? And hath not the tenant for life a property in allthat he gets over and above his rent, by his labour and industry, duringthe said term, supposing it be double the rent? Can any one say, the king,or conqueror, after his grant, may, by his power of conqueror, take away all, or part of the land, from the heirs of one, or from the other during his life, he paying the rent? Or, can he take away from either the goods or money they have got upon the said land at his pleasure? If he can, then all free and voluntary contracts cease, and are void in the world; there needs nothing but power enough to dissolve them at any time, and all the grants and promises of men in power are but mockery and collusion. For can there be anything more ridiculous than to say, I give you and yours this for ever, and that in the surest and most solemn way of conveyance can be devised, and yet it is to be understood that I have right, if I please, to take it away from you again to-morrow?

APP Note: Relate this to US Land Patents absolute granting of properties and the Attempt of the Federal Government to condemn such land (or water by common law attached to the land) later, or the state to condemn such property after giving consent to adjudicate such transfer by authority of the United States by which it was a party, or to create new regulations upon it after granting it withnone; To encircle that land in national monument and control the inroadsand water, or to regulate limits to anything with regardto it, or to arbitrarily tax it into debt and thereby rendering the landnot owned but rented, when no taxes were in established at the receiving ofit, or to tax it without consent, or tax without consent for things built upon that property to improve its value, or raised upon it to derive sustenance and earnings from his labors, or derive any such without consent from those he wills it to.

And you will find that neither the federal government, nor the state governmenthas the power to do so, nor has any power ofsuch been delegated to it by the original compacts they exist under.

For once property is possessed of a person, it is any governments duty to protect it, and not to devise a design to wrest it away after all rights had been released ; As this clearly established by Locke that the protection of property is the purpose of government and the reason that the person enters into society.

John Locke 202. Wherever law ends, tyranny begins, if the law be transgressed to another's harm; and whosoever in authority exceeds the power given him by the law, and makes use of the force he has under his command to compass that upon the subjectwhich the law allows not, ceases in that to be a magistrate, and acting withoutauthority may be opposed, as any other man who by force invades the rightof another. This is acknowledged in subordinate magistrates. He that hath authority to seize my person in the street may be opposed as a thief and a robber if he endeavours to break into my house to execute a writ, notwithstanding that I know he has such a warrant and such a legal authority as will empower him to arrest me abroad. And why this should not hold in the highest, as well as in the most inferior magistrate, I would gladly be informed. Is it reasonable that the eldest brother, because he has the greatest part of his father's estate, should thereby have a right to take away any of his younger brothers' portions? Or that a rich man, who possessed a whole country, should from thence have a right to seize, when he pleased, the cottage and garden of his poor neighbour? The being rightfully possessed of great power and riches, exceedingly beyond the greatest part of the sons of Adam, is so far from being an excuse,much less a reason for rapine and oppression, which the endamaging anotherwithout authority is, that it is a great aggravation of it. For exceeding the bounds of authority is no more a right in agreat than a petty officer, no more justifiable in a king than a constable. But so much the worse in him as that he has more trust put in him, is supposed, from the advantage of education and counsellors, to have better knowledge and less reasonto do it, having already a greater share than the rest of his brethren.


-----------
 

John Locke Chapter 11: Of the "Extent" of the Legislative Power


John Locke 134.
THE great end of men's entering into society
being the enjoyment of their properties in peace and safety, and the great instrument and means of that being the laws established in that society, the first and fundamental positive law of all commonwealths is the establishing of the legislative power, as the first and fundamental natural law which is to govern even the legislative. Itself is the preservation of the society and (as far as will consist with the public good) of every person in it. This legislative is not only the supreme power of the commonwealth, but sacred and unalterable in the hands where the community have once placed it. Nor can any edict of anybody else, in what form soever conceived, or by what power soever backed, have the force and obligation of a law which has not its sanction from that legislative which the public has chosen and appointed; for without this the law could not have that which is absolutely necessary to its being a law, the consent of the society, over whom nobody can have a power to make laws9 but by their own consent and by authority received fromthem; and therefore all the obedience, which by the most solemn ties anyone can be obliged to pay, ultimately terminates in this supreme power, andis directed by those laws which it enacts. Nor can any oaths to any foreign power whatsoever, or any domestic subordinate power, discharge any member of the society from his obedience to the legislative, acting pursuant to theirtrust, nor oblige him to any obedience contrary to the laws so enacted orfarther than they do allow, it being ridiculous to imagine one can be tiedultimately to obey any power in the society which is not the supreme.

John Locke 135. Though the legislative, whether placed in one or more, whether it be always in being or only byintervals, though it be the supreme power in every commonwealth, yet, first,it is not, nor can possibly be, absolutely arbitrary over the lives andfortunes of the people. For it being but the joint power of every memberof the society given up to that person or assembly which is legislator, itcan be no more than those persons had in a state of Nature before they enteredinto society, and gave it up to the community. For nobody can transfer toanother more power than he has in himself, and nobody has an absolute arbitrarypower over himself, or over any other, to destroy his own life, or take awaythe life or property of another. A man, as has been proved, cannot subjecthimself to the arbitrary power of another; and having, in the state of Nature,no arbitrary power over the life, liberty, or possession of another, butonly so much as the law of Nature gave him for the preservation of himselfand the rest of mankind, this is all he doth, or can give up to the commonwealth, and by it to the legislative power, so that the legislative can have no more than this. Their power in the utmost bounds of it is limited to the public good of the society.10 It is a power that hath no other end but preservation, and therefore can never have a right to destroy, enslave, or designedly to impoverish the subjects; the obligations of the law of Nature cease not in society, but only in many cases are drawn closer, and have, by human laws, known penalties annexed to them to enforce their observation. Thus the law of Nature stands as an eternal rule to all men, legislators as well as others. The rules that they make for, other men's actions must, as well as their ownand other men's actions, be conformable to the law of Nature -- i.e., tothe will of God, of which that is a declaration, and the fundamental law ofNature being the preservation of mankind, no human sanction can be good orvalid against it.

John Locke 136. Secondly, the legislativeor supreme authority cannot assume to itself a power to rule by extemporary arbitrary decrees, but is bound to dispense justice and decide the rights of the subject by promulgated standing laws, 11
(APP Note: See these exact words in the Rights of the Colonists)  and known authorized judges. For the law of Nature being unwritten, and so nowhere to be found but in the minds of men, they who, through passion or interest, shall miscite or misapply it, cannot so easily be convinced of their mistake where there is no established judge; and so it serves not as it aught, to determine the rightsand fence the properties of those that live under it, especially where everyone is judge, interpreter, and executioner of it too, and that in his owncase; and he that has right on his side, having ordinarily but his own singlestrength, hath not force enough to defend himself from injuries or punishdelinquents. To avoid these inconveniences which disorder men's properties in the state of Nature, men unite into societies that they may have the united strength of the whole society to secure and defend their properties, and mayhave standing rules to bound it by which every one may know what is his. Tothis end it is that men give up all their natural power to the society theyenter into, and the community put the legislative power into such hands asthey think fit, with this trust, that they shall be governed by declared laws,or else their peace, quiet, and property will still be at the same uncertaintyas it was in the state of Nature.

John Locke 137. Absolute arbitrary power, or governing without settled standing laws, can neither of them consist with the ends of society and government, which men would not quit the freedom of the state of Nature for, and tie themselves up under, were it not to preserve their lives, liberties, and fortunes, and by stated rules of right and property to secure their peace and quiet. It cannot be supposed that they should intend, had they a power so to do, to give any one or more an absolute arbitrary power over their persons and estates, and put a force into the magistrate's hand to execute his unlimited will arbitrarily upon them; this were to put themselves into a worse condition than the state of Nature, wherein they had a liberty to defend their right against the injuries of others, and were upon equal terms of force to maintain it, whether invaded by a single man or many in combination. Whereas by supposing they have given up themselves to the absolute arbitrary power and will of a legislator, they have disarmed themselves, and armed him to make a prey of them when he pleases; he being in a much worse condition that is exposed to the arbitrary power of one man who has the command of a hundred thousand than he that is exposed to the arbitrary power of a hundred thousand single men, nobody being secure, that his will who has such a command is better than that of other men, though his force be a hundred thousand times stronger. And, therefore, whateverform the commonwealth is under, the ruling power ought to govern by declaredand received laws, and not by extemporary dictates and undetermined resolutions, for then mankind will be in a far worse condition than in the state of Nature if they shall have armed one or a few men with the joint power of a multitude, to force them to obey at pleasure the exorbitant and unlimited decrees of their sudden thoughts, or unrestrained, and till that moment, unknown wills, without having any measures set down which may guide and justify their actions. For all the power the government has, being only for the good of the society, as it ought not to be arbitrary and at pleasure, so it ought to be exercised by established and promulgated laws, that both the people may know theirduty, and be safe and secure within the limits of the law, and the rulers,too, kept within their due bounds, and not be tempted by the power they havein their hands to employ it to purposes, and by such measures as they wouldnot have known, and own not willingly.

John Locke 138.
Thirdly, the supreme power cannot take from any man any part of his property without his own consent.  (APP Note: See these exact words in the Rights of the Colonists) For the preservation of property being the end of government, and that for which men enter into society, it necessarily supposes and requires that the people should have property, without which they must be supposed to lose that by entering into society whichwas the end for which they entered into it; too gross an absurdity for anyman to own. Men, therefore, in society having property, they have such aright to the goods, which by the law of the community are theirs, that nobodyhath a right to take them, or any part of them, from them without theirown consent; without this they have no property at all. For I have trulyno property in that which another can by right take from me when he pleasesagainst my consent. Hence it is a mistake to think that the supreme or legislativepower of any commonwealth can do what it will, and dispose of the estatesof the subject arbitrarily, or take any part of them at pleasure. This isnot much to be feared in governments where the legislative consists whollyor in part in assemblies which are variable, whose members upon the dissolutionof the assembly are subjects under the common laws of their country, equallywith the rest. But in governments where the legislative is in one lastingassembly, always in being, or in one man as in absolute monarchies, thereis danger still, that they will think themselves to have a distinct interestfrom the rest of the community, and so will be apt to increase their ownriches and power by taking what they think fit from the people. For a man'sproperty is not at all secure, though there be good and equitable laws toset the bounds of it between him and his fellow-subjects, if he who commands those subjects have power to take from any private man what part he pleases of his property, and use and dispose of it as he thinks good.

John Locke 139. But government, into whosesoever hands it is put, being as I have before shown, entrusted with this condition, and for this end,
that men might have and secure their properties, the prince or senate, however it may have power to make laws for the regulating of property between the subjects one amongst another, yet can never have a power to take to themselves the whole, or any part of the subjects' property, without their own consent; for this would be in effect to leave them no propertyat all. And to let us see that even absolute power, where it is necessary, is not arbitrary by being absolute, but is still limited by that reason and confined to those ends which required it in some cases to be absolute, we need look no farther than the common practice of martial discipline. For the preservation of the army, and in it of the whole commonwealth, requires an absolute obedience to the command of every superior officer, and it is justly death to disobey or dispute the most dangerous or unreasonable of them; but yet we see that neither the sergeant that could command a soldier to march up to the mouth of a cannon, or stand in a breach where he is almost sure to perish, can command that soldier to give him one penny of his money; nor the general that can condemn him to death for deserting his post, or not obeying the most desperate orders, cannot yet with allhis absolute power of life and death dispose of one farthing of that soldier's estate, or seize one jot of his goods; whom yet he can command anything,and hang for the least disobedience. Because such a blind obedience is necessary to that end for which the commander has his power -- viz., the preservation of the rest, but the disposing of his goods has nothing to do with it.

John Locke 140. It is true governments cannot be supported without great charge, and it is fit every one who enjoys his share of the protection should pay out of his estate his proportion forthe maintenance of it. But still it must be with his own consent --i.e., the consent of the majority, giving it either by themselves or their representatives chosen by them; for if any one shall claim a power to lay and levy taxes on the people by his own authority, and without such "consent of the people", he thereby
"invades the fundamental lawof property", and "subverts the end of government". For what property have I in that which another may by right take when he pleases to himself?

John Locke 141. Fourthly. The legislative cannot transfer the power of making laws to any other hands, for it being but a
delegated power from the people, they who have it cannot pass it over to others. (APP Note: The United Nations Has No Powers because the United States having limited delegated powers cannot abrogate new powers nor transfer powers, not existing or contrary to the peoples rights, of the united states, to others) The people alone can appoint the form of the commonwealth, which is by constituting the legislative, and appointing in whose hands that shall be. And when the people have said, "We will submit, and be governed by laws made by such men, and in such forms," nobody else can say other men shall make laws for them; nor can they be bound by any laws but such as are enacted by those whom they have chosen and authorized to make laws for them.

John Locke 142.
These are the "bounds" which the "trust" that is put in them by the society and the law of God and Nature have set to the legislative power of every commonwealth, in all forms of government.

First: They are to govern by promulgated established laws, not to be varied in particular cases, but to have one rule for rich and poor, for the favourite at Court, and the countryman at plough.

(APP Note: See these exact words in the Rights of the Colonists)

Secondly: These laws also ought to be designed for no other end ultimately but the good of the people.

Thirdly: They must
not raise taxes on the property of the people without the consent of the people given by themselves or their deputies.

And this properly concerns only such governments where the legislative is always in being, or at least where the people have not reserved any part of the legislative to deputies, to be from time to time chosen by themselves.

Fourthly: Legislative neither must nor can transfer the
power of making laws to anybody else, or place it anywhere but where the people have.

 



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